[music]
>> Nectar, welcome here from Canada and I I
really do appreciate that.
For sure, happy to be here.
So, Nectar, um basically like you are
you put it out there that you're
changing the face of Canadian VC. What
does that mean to you? And tell us a
little bit about yourself.
Sure, sure. Maybe I'll start with myself
and uh before the big big mission of the
fund, but you know, like I've been a
tech geek for 20-ish years, started my
started my career in digital marketing
and uh
you know, worked at Google for for a
little while and did some angel
investing before before starting my own
company. And uh now, yeah, I'm now
having new adventures starting this fund
called Amiral Ventures, uh which we just
launched 5 months ago.
And uh it took it was a hell of a
difficult time to to start a new VC fund
in Canada. It took us like 3 years to
fundraise. And
And a lot of existential questions like,
"Why the hell are we doing this? Like,
why are we spending all this time, you
know, to to to start a fund?" And
we realized that there's just not enough
uh VC capital in Canada, right? So, it's
like more of a question of not like
changing it. It's really just helping
boost uh you know, the ecosystem here,
having another fund that knows what it
is to start a company, understands
startups, and knows when to help, knows
when to get out of the way. And most
importantly, for founders like, "Write
the term sheet." Be able to lead a
round. Like, that's the biggest thing
that's really missing in the country
right now.
And And I kind of remember when this was
happening on the timeline. It was like
around when Open Claw had come out and
some of the the the uh models had start
getting into where they were actually
useful uh for for for day-to-day sort of
automation and stuff. And um that whole
scene changed where
uh businesses just that are different.
And now the founder CEOs were were
becoming more on the scene.
Um
but Canada itself
being
a Canadian myself and having grown up
here
having grown up in the Waterloo area in
the in the I went to McMaster so the
Hamilton area. Um I a lot of engineers,
a lot of tech people, a lot of talent
goes down south. So talk about that
brain drain. It's been happening since I
was in high school um a long time ago.
So tell me uh what do you what do you
know about that and how are you trying
to change it? Yeah, well it's it's an
obvious thing, right? You pointed it out
Johan that you know like a lot of the
best and brightest leave and um
part of that is like in my role as I
guess you founders I get term sheets
from, you know, American investors and
you know what? Founders should get the
best possible terms and best possible
partner they can, right? So I'm not uh
it's not a knock on the founders. It's a
knock on there's just not enough capital
locally. So there's one thing and then
two is, you know, like the reality of
the matter is like all the tech's being
built like a lot of the big generational
companies are in the US, right? So that
attracts a lot of smart people that are
not necessarily, you know, ready to be
founders or not considering the
entrepreneurship path and but want good
safe jobs that pay well.
And that's much more present, you know,
in in the US, right? So but the joke is
San Francisco's just a wrapper on
Waterloo, right? So
it's it's normal that these things are
happening. It's just like the the state
of the chessboard today. So I think what
we're trying to do and I'm one of the
small part of the chain is like if we
have more tech companies here we could
probably get people that want to stick
around, you know,
that maybe ascribe more to the values of
this country that hey if I don't need to
leave, you know, to have a high-paying,
you know, a salary somewhere else or hey
I could actually start a company.
It is possible to do it, right? It's
like I said it's not a perfect
environment. There's still a lot of work
to be done but uh
small steps towards building, you know,
more companies here I think it is a good
thing. You know, the end state of how I
like to describe it is that we have one
big tech company in Canada, right? Like
the you know, the the the the one big
you know, 200 plus market cap company.
We probably need at least 10 or dozen
more to just build a more vibrant
ecosystem, right? Because then below
that you have a lot more obviously, you
know,
uh you know, like 50 billion and 10
billion and you know, you know, growing
companies and like they'll just be more
of
uh a bigger tech industry as a whole,
right?
Um I think I know which one it is. It's
Shopify. I mean, it's it's the only one.
But like the the others are banks pretty
much and and insurance institutions. And
uh that's the the state of business in
Canada pretty much. Um
yes, and you're right. We do need to
change that. And tell me about like
what what do you see as the biggest
challenges ahead for for making inroads
into into that?
Um well, you know, like in my role like
obviously, you know, everything I see is
you know, like a you know, what's the
expression? If you're a hammer,
everything's a nail, right? So, I think
part of it is like hey, more money like
more money pouring into like funds like
myself. Like that's obviously super
biased. Uh but part of it is also just
um
building the ecosystem here, right? So,
showing people that it is possible. Like
I've met a bunch of very successful
founders that have built companies here
that have made it and you know, like you
know, built here, but are on the global
stage. So, [snorts] part of it is like
just showcasing that it's it's possible,
right? So, I think a little bit of you
know, one of the arrows in our quiver is
trying to do some marketing, trying to
do some media and events to to help
promote the ecosystem. We're not the
only ones. You know, it's it takes a
village as they say.
Uh so, part of it is just like the
positive Canadian propaganda. It's like
showing people you can do it here. And
if you follow, you know, like I spend
too much time on Twitter and like um
it's like a lot of the vibes end up
being negative. I was like, but why?
It's like quality of life in Canada is
great. We're you know, there are no
bombs falling. You can do it here. Like
there's no there's you know, like
writing software is done at your you
know, like in the office. Like there's
no other reason. And uh there's a lot of
like mis- misconceptions. Oh, you have
to be a Delaware corp in order to get
funding from the US VC. It's not true.
It's like I don't know where that's
written, but that's not 100% not true.
Uh so, I think part of it is
demystifying it for the founders as well
that are building. And like I said, if
they want to move and like go there,
like of course like it's a it's a very
vibrant ecosystem, but
my job is like how can we help make it
more attractive for people to stay?
>> [snorts]
>> Yeah, and um are you seeing any sort of
uh narrative
for people high net worth and bigger
investing in Canada? Like what what are
they what are their reservations?
Um [sighs]
the way I like to approach this question
is that we're not we're not the Valley.
Let's not pretend we are, right? Like
there's just way more capital available
and and it's like you know, it's the
analogy is like French wine. Like who
has the best best wine in the world?
It's the French, right? And the reason
is cuz they've been doing it for
multiple multiple generations, right?
So, it's same thing in the Valley. Like
it's literally since the '50s and '60s
that this whole, you know, tech tech
industry started there.
We are on like they're maybe generation
12, 13 of building, exiting, and
reinvesting in in in tech. We're at like
1.5, 2, right? So, we're just we're less
mature, right? We're an emerging
ecosystem compared to Canada, right? So,
it's normal that there's the pockets of
money that we have aren't used to
investing in tech, right? So, I think
it's starting to change. Like we started
with our fund, you know, like more than
a third of our capital base came from
founders, from tech founders that had
exited, that had success, that believe
in our mission, what we're trying to do.
We have like 51 private LPs and majority
are are tech founders, like the
operators.
Um you know, but but there's still, you
know, there's a little bit of a
misconception is that there's not enough
money and capital. It's like it's not
true. It's like there's we're a rich
country here. It's just the chunk of the
money isn't going into tech for a large
extent. So, I think
part of, you know, a lot of the
government a lot of the money does come
from government, which is a good and a
bad thing. I could I could I could
probably talk about that.
But we need to attract more private
capital for sure, right? So I think
that's a that's a key thing that needs
to happen.
So the narrative is like, yeah, there's
French wine down in San Francisco, but
there's a some great sweet Niagara
region dessert wine up here in Canada,
right?
Totally. Totally, yeah, that's it. And
you know, and and to be clear, it's like
I think we we punch above our weight,
right? If you look at um
if you look at a lot of the innovations
that powered today's tech, like it all
started here, right? So
smartphones is one. Like we have two of
the three, you know, godfathers of the
AI like literally AI, the modern AI, the
transformer came from here, came from
Montreal. Um
but we haven't been as good, obviously,
you know, the the common trope is
Canada's not good at commercializing and
it's kind of true, right? Like we're
good at the, you know, uh
R&D science stuff,
but we're not good at building companies
as a result, right? So I think, you
know, there's groups like Vector
Institute and Mila that are really
trying to change that with their their
venture programs and get a lot of the
people that were that would be sucked
down south to stay here and start
companies. And we're seeing some some of
those successes emerge.
Uh but like I said, it takes time. So
it's not it's going to be an overnight
thing. I think we could probably
accelerate that faster than having to
wait, you know, multiple generations
uh because we already have all the, you
know, raw ingredients are are in place.
Yeah, so um
let's continue. The
there's a a meetup place in Waterloo and
I'm part of it. It's like a a co-work
space.
And uh I go there and there's just a
cool culture up there, you know, a
builder culture. Um
very cool things happening when people
get together and they
they meet with other like founders.
Um
just uh an interesting place to be,
especially around that region.
Um so we do have a good culture here. It
just takes that growing up or it just
takes that uh initiative for people to
see the vision in it. So, I'm glad
people like you, Nectar, are are are
leading this charge. Talk about like
some of the ideas that that really that
you've seen that you're like, "No, this
is not going to work." Like to help some
of the founders that are are developing
right now.
I'm not going to have a very good answer
to this question, right? Because I think
the one thing I've realized is no one
knows. Like everyone's pretending.
Everyone's trying to fight for status.
Uh so, there's not like, "Oh, if you're
doing idea X, it's stupid." Because it's
like
the history of venture is littered with
successes of like people that said like,
"This is a dumb idea. Don't do it."
Right? So, who am I to say especially
you know like sitting on the sidelines
of
um you know like a lot of people told
you know the the founders of Airbnb is
like, "This is the dumbest idea I've
ever heard. No one's going to sleep on a
stranger's mattress." The smartest
investors in the world, right? So,
I'm not I'm not one to criticize and
say, "Hey, you shouldn't try X." Right?
So, I think the path is you have to
follow the reality in front of you,
right? So, you have to know it's like
are people you know demanding your
product or not? Right? So, like that's
really the one thing that matters. Like
are the customers you use the solution
that you know that that that that you're
coming up with, right? So, if you have
some kind of unique insight into a new
behavior, new emergent behavior, uh that
you think you can capitalize on and
build a company around. So, I think
that's really the core of it. So, I
would say it's like startups as you know
it's like a lot of experimentation
starting with A and then you end up with
B.
You know,
look at the guys from that started Slack
like Stewart Butterfield. It's like it's
like we're going to oh, we're doing a
video game. And it's like, "Oh, we need
an in-chat interface for the video
game." And that became
Slack. Right? So, like if you told me at
the beginning it's like, "Oh, this video
game pitch is so stupid." It's like
right? So, you ultimately what it boils
down to is like it's the quality of the
founder and like do they have some kind
of idea, some kind of area they're
working on that's unique, that's
insightful that that that they could
build something. And uh yeah, I'm not
going to be the one that says like don't
do this, you
And and I
just being part of
startups as well, too. It's it's it's
about the the character of the founder
and how they can pivot, how they listen,
how they're coached,
um their sense of urgency, things like
that. And that's probably something that
you see as well, maybe?
Yeah, totally. And there's no one
architect, you know, like some founders
are headstrong, I'm not coachable, I'll
do my thing. Other people are very open
to feedback and will adjust and
it's the the color of the skin, the age,
the gender, all these things are
irrelevant, right? It's really the the
quality of that person's ideas and their
their their grit, their resilience in
working through working through
challenges. That's really the the the
ultimate stress test.
Um what have you learned to walk away
from, what type of founder archetype?
Uh [gasps] like it's very it's a very
personal thing and I'm new to VC, so I'm
like, oh, the grizzled veteran that's
done this, right? So
we have a style of investing that we
like and that we're trying to going to
put forth. And different funds have
different styles and you know, like for
the founders that are looking at
founders, it's like you kind of have to
know like
the stage, the sector, all these things,
like who do you want to work with
long-term? And so the founders I like to
work with are ones that want to partner
with people for the long-term that are
not necessarily focused on just
transactional side. It's like we like to
be in the the trenches, be there for
your important strategic decisions and
help out. And for people that are like,
that's great, just give me come me a
check and go away, it's like that's not
exciting, you know, like for me. It's
like I'm also a founder of this fund, so
I like to like to be involved and help
startups as much as I can and also have
the presence of mind to get out of the
way if I need to. But I also don't want
to get out of the way entirely. Like
that's not
that's not why I started this thing. I
started to to be involved and help and
use my network, use our
the fund's connections to to to be as
you know, it's a small reflection, but
like the founders are doing 99.9% of the
work. If you can help maybe just a bit
at the right time, that can have an
outsized impact. That's what we're
trying to do.
Um so we're not trying to get in their
shoes. You know.
Um
What did you learn from building up that
business in Montreal with with Google
that that's helped you today?
Um yeah, it was a sales job. So but that
was before I started my my my first
company. So uh I learned how to do
sales.
So it was like, you know, like and
within a big structure organization and
you know what it takes and you meet a
lot of people and make friends and I
also saw what world-class engineering
culture looks like, you know, like and
uh you know, the geeks that that you
know, that uh you know, the the the
geeky culture that you know, has made
Google such a success, right? So there's
a there's a ton of lessons and also
maybe I've learned more on the personal
side of like what it what I don't want
for me. It's like maybe I don't I don't
think I'm I'd be a good future employee
anymore, you know, having start company
you know, starting a company kind of
Like never say never, but for you know,
like being a a small cog in a big
machine wasn't for me, you know, so I
learned that like even if Google had
like the most insane kind of
compensation, all the you know, the
external vanity of oh wow, you work for
Google and like a little you know, like
in your social circle it brings you this
outside validation, but realize that
like doesn't it's not a long-term
motivator for me, you know.
I I resonate with that. I used to be an
employee of JP Morgan Chase and it's
like I felt so small within that company
and
I totally get that. Um
Yeah, so so I wanted to hit on a point
that you said about sales.
How important is it for a founder to
know how to sell?
Uh
Well
Okay, so again goes back to maybe I'm
too like the one thing I learned like I
I used to run a strategy company before
and like doing you know, like helping
companies figure out what to do and I've
learned one thing is that there's no
there's no right answer for anything,
right? So the example I said before, you
know, like some founders are just like
insanely technical and like build
something. It's like how good were the
founders of Google in sales? Like zero
on 10, right? Like literally they were
not like but they had this like insane
skill of building the future, you know,
like that came like I know that's a very
obvious example. Uh so it I think it it
depends on what are you building. If
you're building something that's like
product led, the product's the core
innovation uh
it's maybe not as important. Then maybe
hire someone, you know, like have a
co-founder that's good in sales or head
of sales, etc. But if you're like
building something that's enterprise
like the founder needs to sell and like
it's an enterprise led motion or sales
led motion, then yeah, you probably
you should be there, you know, from zero
to X million, right? In in ARR to do
able to know it well before you
transition to other skills. So I want to
say that's probably the most simple the
simplest distinction I can make.
And I guess knowing what the customer
would pay for definitely changes the
product, but sometimes there's strong
visions on what the product should be um
in despite of the customer. So have you
seen different kind of like battles
between companies or smaller companies
about this? And do you have any opinion
on that? Well, it's I think there's
another key distinction of is it a
customer or is it a user, right? So um
you know, the one of the tenants at
Google back in the day was like know the
user and all else will follow.
And the you you know, users of the
search engine or Gmail and I or
whatever, it's like they're not most of
the time they're not paying for the
product, right? So but they're the
linchpin that makes the whole business
model work, right? Uh so being able to
satisfy users is is a key component to
it. And then obviously customer's
different, right? So having
the person that pays the bills, like
often times it could be the user as
well, right? Like depending on on what
the you know, what the startup is
building.
Uh I think in both the cases those are
the you know, like sometimes in the
single persona, sometimes two different.
They're very very critical, right? So
understanding uh you know, the
difference between the two. Sometimes
you can have like a sales led motion,
but the user's not the person that's
paying. It's like it could be let's say
like a developer and engineer, but the
person that's paying is like the CFO or
whatever. That's the customer cuz
they're the ones that they're signing
off on on the purchase order. So, I'm
just just to make a very simple kind of
like
you know statement of how you build a
company right?
Yeah, I mean so when it does get up to
the CFO level, he's mostly probably just
a rubber stamp
and in my opinion anyways, like they the
product people drive that recommendation
like let's pay for this.
Um
but yeah, I totally get that get that
part of things.
Um
What what are you excited about in the
next 6 months here in Canada?
Uh there's a lot man. Like I just like
my job. Like you know, I'm looking at it
my perspective like I really like what I
do. Like it's like meet with founders
and you know, like have brilliant people
line up at the door and try and see hey,
do I want to work with this person and
their team? And there's a lot of cool
sectors that are you know, like you
know, yes, the two-letter buzzword
everyone's talking about today.
But it's it's just like really came
bringing explosion of all different
types of companies like in biotech and
defense tech, obviously AI,
you know, space industries. There's so
much happening. So, I find them like
just drinking from the higher fire holes
all day. It's like meet smart people and
like explaining explaining to me what
they're doing and try and help if I if I
can. Uh so that would say that's
probably the thing I'm most excited
about. And the second thing is also just
building a fund. It's like we just had
our first you know, employee start. We
think about our own process. How do you
build a VC fund in 2026 today with all
with all these new agentic tools? Uh
it's really exciting because there's the
you know, like you know, what's the
expression work on the business or in
the business?
So, there's the working on the business
part two that I find fun. It's like hey,
like we have to build a team and build a
culture and build all these tools and
things that that help us. I think that's
pretty fun, too.
It feels like AI is more of an
enablement technology just like the
internet was
when it first came out and AI is going
to enable other industries to do well.
What other industries outside tech are
you interested in? Well, I mean tech is
like another enablement type of word,
but what industry overall are you
interested in? Like is space
Yeah, um well, I spoke about some of it
before. Space is one that I'm interested
in just because it's like we see it with
the, you know, forthcoming IPO of
SpaceX. It's unlocking this whole new
economy
because the cost per kilogram has
dropped. So, cost of launch has gone
down significantly. So, it's enabling a
bunch of like new cool new technologies.
And in this case is launch is kind of
the enabling technology and we're seeing
a lot of stuff being able to happen and
and a lot of cool stuff that in lower
orbit and orbit that are really
unlocking you know new types of
companies to emerge. I I think that's
really one area that that I'm interested
in. And then yeah, of course, just AI as
a whole I think is one that the pace of
change is so rapid. Um and it's
We could talk about this SAS apocalypse
and everything, but there's a whole
segment and slew of opportunities that
it opens in terms of like surface area
for for founders to build on. And I
think that's really cool. So, it's
enabling a bunch of cool companies to
emerge. And what it takes to build a
company today and the way you build a
team, the way you hire, the way you
staff, what you give agents to do, all
this playbook does not exist. Like I
know it's kind of being written a lot of
cool blog posts, but like that get
outdated quickly.
Really exciting time because it's like
the way you kind of like build a company
is is changing. And we we have, you
know, four portfolio companies today and
all of them are thinking about this
question, right? So, how do we build
today? How do we hire?
How do we be more efficient using these
new tools?
I I'm recalling a tweet that you put out
recently about
um
the Kardashev type two
sort of and I I Googled this uh
or I asked
an AI about this maybe about a few
months ago. And I
what is it? There's like something
around the sun that
that's the end goal, right? Like to have
this
energy generator around the sun?
Um yeah, I think you know, Musk probably
talks about this quite often, but it's
it's where it comes from is from a
Russian astronaut called Kardashev I
think in like 40s or 50s I forget. You
know, like it basically, you know,
civilizational scales. So,
type one, type two, type three. And I
probably going to get this wrong, but
like type one is being able to harness
harness, you know, energy of the sun for
your your own planet. Type two is being
able to to capture it using like a Dyson
sphere and like try to you know, the the
the solar system. And then type three is
being able to use it across multiple
stars. And again, I'm probably
butchering it, but I still like this for
me it's the general notion of harnessing
energy from the sun to just build like
epic cool stuff, you know, so
we're seeing it in terms of like you
know,
solar power, right? The
like it since 1970 the cost of a solar
panels dropped by 99.7%
right? Like it's and it's trending
asymptotically down to zero because like
you know, like power of the sun is like
literally free all day. Right? So, just
our ability to harness it
from for startup land, I know this is
like you know, kind of hyperbolic. I I
gave it as a hyperbolic example on
Twitter, but I like this idea of like
how do we just build more stuff? That's
kind of the future, right? So, mention
space like we're talking to companies
building like just like science fiction
stuff, you know, and we're seeing it in
like you know, biotech and health space
as well. There's so many different areas
like hey, let's cure cancer, right? Like
the founder of DeepMind just raised like
two billion for his company Isomorphic
Labs that is really you know, trying to
use AI to to help solve some
you know, like
you know, health care in essence.
Um, so yeah, I think it's like we're
getting to the point of like the future
is going to look way weirder than we we
can imagine imagine today and we're just
at the start of it.
Yeah, and it's it's one of the reasons
why I created this podcast and named it
after Carl Sagan's Pale Blue Nexus so
how he saw the the Earth from from
space.
I I'm very interested in space tech and
I saw like Nvidia is putting out
uh,
chips out in
on on uh
What did it look like? It looked like um
some kind of spacecraft out there and
they're putting chips out there and
they're harnessing energy from the sun
to run the GPUs. I it's it's really
interesting how people are just kind of
thinking about things these days.
Yeah, well, like it's been announced by
SpaceX and Google. Like it was an
article in Wall Street Journal yesterday
of like their plans to you know put
computer in space, right? And uh
Um so I won't give away which companies
we're talking to, but there's some that
are trying to do something similar,
maybe different angle uh to that
specifically. So Nvidia GPUs are already
in space. Like it's already a thing.
They're already on certain satellites.
So
um we're seeing more launch companies
come out. Like there's one in the
I had the I had the the founder of uh
Reaction Engines on my podcast recently
and he's building a launch company here
out of Montreal. Like really really cool
company.
Um so yeah, the whole that whole sector
right now is like set really to kind of
grow off. Uh and there's a lot of use
People are like, "Oh, why'd you invest
in space?" No, but it's going to help
things here on Earth. Like I think just
people don't realize it yet.
Yeah, even from a commodities
perspective, I it's far out there, but
there's asteroid mining. Like there's
definitely
gold isn't the most rarest resource in
the world if you consider like you can
mine an asteroid for it and
um you know, maybe trees are the more
rare than and gold. So the
wood. Like you know, there's just
certain things that that once you go out
out of this
pale blue planet that we're on and you
step out there, it just becomes an
entire new new world. Pardon the the
pun, but like um
space is the is the next frontier in my
opinion. Yeah, I don't want to get too
much into like the abundance porn,
right? Like you know, you can follow the
abundance podcast if you know, like if
you want to get into like all the you
know, all these amazing things. It's
like
the future's not written, right? So
can still go sideways, you know? Like we
still have to like it's up to humans to
you know, like people and societal
choices that we do things in the right
way. So I'm not trying to say it's all
going to be this utopia. Right. I much
believe the utopian outcome than
dystopian one, but it's not a sure
thing, so there's a lot of work still
left to be done, right? So, I think it's
up to us how how we we decide to do it,
right? So, I'm not trying to like gloss
over the real, you know, like
humanitarian problems that we still
have. Right.
But, I see obviously the reason I'm in
this space sector is because I believe
this stuff's going to help, right? So,
um that's kind of my my uh my viewpoint.
Yeah, I might have a a naive
outlook because I've watched too much
Star Trek over the years and I feel like
uh you know, SpaceX is probably going to
be like the Federation or something like
that, but uh yeah, I I agree with you
and and a very pragmatic outlook there,
Nectar. Um yeah, thank you for coming on
today. Um appreciate the time. Tell us
about your podcast before you go and and
and the type of guests that you're
having on. Sure, sure. It's like this
neat little podcast I've been doing for
like 10 years and for me it's like a
selfish reason to just like meet
founders and meet smart people and learn
from them. It's called it's called
Flagship. I didn't have an original
name. It's just the name of my fund in
in English. My name is the name of my
fund is Amiral in in in English that
means Flagship and got to get the idea
of what we're trying to do with the fund
is like build the next big Canadian
flagships.
So, uh if you're, you know, like trying
to
you know, highlight Canadian founders,
Canadian investors on the pod and trying
to build like an equivalent media
ecosystem to, you know, the US. Like,
you know, I obviously follow a lot of
the US ones, but they have their whole
star ecosystem. Just trying to build
something here like that, right? So,
like if you're Canadian founder, you can
listen to like, hey, what are the people
building here and the and the ecosystem
has them on and learn about what they're
doing here.
That's awesome. And and where can we
catch up with you on I think you're
active on X, right? I am, yeah. Just my
first name on X or or on the LinkedIn,
so I tend to be more unfiltered on on X.
Yeah, um well, thanks, Nectar. Um
appreciate you coming on, like I said,
and we'll talk again soon. My pleasure.
Thanks for having me on.