[music]
Welcome everybody. This is the absolute
first episode of Pale Blue Nexus and I'm
uh honored to have a longtime sort of
like corresponder in my email, uh Jim
Rogers. Jim, we've been corresponding
for since uh 2009. I just checked my
records. Uh you were a bit younger then,
huh? And so was I.
>> Guess everybody was.
[laughter]
>> We were talking about something that was
a little bit uh close to my heart back
then. And and you were big on the gold
scene back then. Um what what has
changed since 2009? And maybe we can
just talk about like the macro
environment first before we get into
specifics.
>> Well, Johan, a lot of things have
changed since 2009. You know, I'm older,
you're older, everybody's older. I hope
we're all richer. Um, hope we're all
happier.
Happy New Year.
>> Yes. Chinese New Year. So, you're you're
out in Singapore. How is that going?
Singapore and we have Chinese New Year
here.
>> And And how do you feel about the year
of the firehorse?
>> Hooray. Hooray. I actually was born in
the year of the horse, so I good. I hope
it's good news.
>> Oh, that's interesting cuz uh so was I.
Do you know what your element is?
>> I don't know. I didn't know I had an
element, so I guess I don't know.
>> Yeah, you'll have to look that up. I'm a
earth horse. And uh this here is the
fire horse. So you may be a water horse
or a a gold horse. You might be a gold
horse.
>> Look, gold. I'd like to be a gold horse.
Yes. [laughter]
>> So tell me, Jib, how has it been out in
the Asian nations since you've moved
there?
>> Well, whether we like it or not, Asia is
the future. I mean,
the population is here and the
prosperity is here. though I mean I
don't particularly like it since I'm an
American but America is the largest
devil in the history of the world. Asia
has lots of prosperity and lots of
money. I'm quite happy in Asia. We live
in Singapore which has been a very
successful country. So we're delighted.
>> Very nice. And how has been the uh
transition for your family?
Well, my family, one of my daughters was
actually born here. Uh, both of I mean,
my dad, my older daughter has just
graduated from university in Columbia,
New York. So, she's now working. She's a
got a real job and the other one is
going to university next year. They're
growing up.
>> Yeah. You must be a lucky guy to have
two daughters. I have one myself and uh
they're certainly a blessing.
Well, I my my parents had five sons, so
I know the girls are better than boys.
Quite happy to have girls.
>> That's cool. Um, you know, one of the
things that we talked about on over
email was like education. Um, my mom was
big on that and I figure I don't know
how influenced you were by your parents,
but I knew you went to Yale and Oxford
and times have changed since then.
Um there just recently my colleague
commented about
it sounds a little crazy to spend 100k
on education for their uh newly
18year-old or 19year-old is thinking
about going to college. What do you
think about that tradeoff this this time
with the world the way it is with the
way AI is? Um yeah what do you think
your thoughts?
Well, I do know that university is good
for people. Uh, it helps you grow up. It
teaches you a bit about the world. Uh,
yes, you do learn some things. You could
learn those things going to the library,
too. But the university exposes you to
new people, new experiences, new ideas.
I guess that's the best part of a
university education is you meet new
people, new ideas. you have new
experiences, things that never would
have happened to you at home. So that I
am quite keen on university. I went to a
couple of nice universities and I
suggest that everybody should do it.
It's the experience more than anything
else. You can read all those books
wherever you are, whenever you are, but
it's the experiences of meeting new
people, having new experiences. That's
the best part.
Yeah, I guess it was always about that.
It just became more about that. And it's
uh even more important these days to
surround yourself with uh the right
people. It's uh it's just interesting.
Do you think a high pre a high Ivy
League highost Ivy League education is
is uh is is the same as maybe a
lesser school with a lesser cost?
Well, I mean, you can go to the state
university in Mississippi or to
Princeton. Uh, both will be good
experiences for you, extremely good
experiences for you. It's the
experiences you have that are better
than anything. Now, I don't know if the
people at Princeton are better than the
people at the University of Mississippi,
but I certainly had a lot of fun at
Yale, had a lot of fun at Oxford.
Maybe I would have been I should have
gone to University of Mississippi. It's
the It's the experiences and the new the
new life that's the best part of it.
>> Would you share a couple of fun
experiences that you had at Yale? I'm
I'm curious.
>> Oh. Oh, you know, when I went to Yale, I
was from the backwoods of Alabama. I
didn't know anything. I I my phone
number when I went to Yale was five.
That's not a typo. Five. I didn't even
know how to use dial telephones. So
going to Yale, I learned how to use f
telephones if nothing else. You know, it
was a very good experience. Nobody had
ever heard of me or Alabama where I was
from. Nobody knew much of anything. But
that was a great experience. Likewise at
Oxford. I met new people and learned new
new things. I learned new things just
because they were new and different and
they would they had different ideas
about the world and that's the best part
of it.
And what do you foresee as like some
things that have stayed the same from
back then versus today
in today's world? I I don't know. uh you
must be keeping up with the rapid pace
of AI and the use of it and people seem
to be uh very concerned that their
intelligence is being taken over by
artificial means and uh it's concerning
to them certain people anyways and some
are not but uh what do you think has
changed since that those times
>> you that's been going on throughout
history I I mean, there was a time when
the railroads
caused great excitement and hysteria and
terror. Electricity. Oh my gosh,
electricity. You know, there was a time
when people were terrified of
electricity, telephones, everything.
We'll see many new inventures, new I
mean, I can remember when computers came
along. We were all wildly excited. If
you had a if you had a company and you
had computer in your name and you were
on Wall Street, your stock went up. Just
because it said computer, nobody quite
knew what you did
matter because your stock was going
straight up. So, it's always something
new, something exciting. Right now, it's
AI. And we're excited about AI. But I
repeat, this has all happened before.
And I hope we live long enough to see
many many many more new exciting things.
>> That is such just a refreshing
perspective. Um I think I I remember
during the 998 times when the web first
came out and uh you're right any company
that had the word web or search or
anything web related was just uh like
that. and it seems like it's the same
thing today. But for some of the younger
people who don't have that perspective,
uh it may be um new to them. And um
I guess you're you're absolutely right
about that and maybe you can uh give a
little bit more perspective about the
trends that you see today like uh
investment wise uh how do you feel about
the space and uh where do you see some
of the the shifts happening?
>> Well, and I've been investing for a long
time. I mean I have to pay my bills.
Well, once I learned about investing, I
thought it was very wonderful. It was
great. I didn't know anything about them
when I went to Wall Street the first
time, but it very exciting for me. And
it still is, you know, it's a place
where you have to know about the world.
And I came to realize that that was my
passion in life is knowing what was
happening in the world. So, for me, it's
been a wonderful place. And they pay me.
Oh my gosh, they pay me. you know, if
you do it well, they pay you a lot of
money. So, for me, investing is a
wonderful way to spend your time. Um,
when I was a student, I thought I was
going to go to law school and medical
school and everything. I was a confused
kid like many other people. I discovered
Wall Street and thank goodness I
discovered it because otherwise I might
be a lawyer in Atlanta or something
right now. [laughter]
>> Yeah, we wouldn't want that, would we?
And you would certainly wouldn't.
>> No. No.
>> And you wouldn't have made that
one-of-a-kind Mercedes. Uh I took a look
at it and um Did you choose the color
yellow or was that uh your partner?
>> No, no. I I they got it yellow and I
specifically got yellow because part of
the plan was to drive around the world
and I knew that there were very few
yellow cars in the world and I knew that
they would be distinctive and it might
save my life, you know, because I knew
that wherever I was, people would say,
"Look at that yellow car." And that
means, you know, if the bandits were
coming, everybody would be watching. So,
I hoped it would save my life. I'm still
alive, so maybe it did.
And I mean, what were you thinking on
that day in n I I believe it was 1999
that you you took off um you guys and in
in that car with the little trailer on
the back. How what was the feeling like
that day? And um I guess did you think
that you would have made it all the way
through 116 countries and uh I countless
number of miles.
>> Well, you know I am lucky to be alive.
You know many people set off to drive I
mean many people set off to drive to the
cap and they get killed. So I am lucky
to be alive. I'm delighted to be alive.
I I when I set off, I was excited
because I was hoping for a great
adventure. I knew I might not make it.
I'm happy I made it, but I was
apprehensive, but I was also very
excited because I knew that if I did it,
it was going to be an exciting
adventure. And I hoped I had survived.
>> So, how did it start? It went from
Iceland and then you went across Russia.
Was that the start?
>> Well, I Yeah, I drove from Iceland to
Ireland to England to
Russia to through China and then I and
Japan and then I came back through
Siberia through Russia went back to
Ireland. So I crossed Eurasia twice and
then I went down through Africa and we
did all around Africa. I think 50
countries in a 35 countries in Africa
then Australia, New Zealand down to the
tip of South America and up to Alaska.
And many of us hoay had a lot of fun and
I'm delighted to be alive. I'm lucky to
be alive. How many tires did you change
on that trip?
>> More than once. We did have flat tires.
>> Okay.
Yeah, it uh it's it's a it's a trip of a
lifetime, I'd say. And um
where did you stay? What was the one of
the most fun places that you stayed? And
what were some of the places that you
said, "Yeah, you know what? I'm going to
try and speed through this place."
Well, I mean, we we all I always wanted
to stay in a hotel. I mean, sometimes
the best hotel in town was a a shed. It
was not always very nice, but you know,
we sometimes had to camp in the Sahara
Desert. There no hotels, so we slept in
the in the sand. You know, the stars at
night in the Sahara Desert are glorious.
If you're ever there, be sure to spend
the night. that started at night and it
saw like nothing else. But everything I
mean you know no matter where I was it
didn't matter whether it was Tokyo or
London everything was exciting and new
and different for me and I was from a
small town in Alabama so everything was
exciting to me.
Yeah, it uh that that must have been
opened up your eyes to the world and you
wrote books after that and some even
before that. Um the book my gift to my
children I actually read uh as a young
man and I actually gave that to my
daughter when she turned just around
nine or 10. Um
>> talk about talk about that book. what
inspired you to write it and also what
you would change for today's world?
>> Well, I I wrote the book because
[sighs]
I had never been a father before and I
knew that I wanted there were things I
wanted to try to tell my children, teach
my children. Uh the problem is no matter
what you teach your children, you know,
you know, if every parent alive knows
that their children are very smart kids,
they think they're very smart, but
anything you can teach them is good
experience, especially as experience. So
I had the idea that I was going to try
to teach my kids as much about life as I
could.
But as I have learned, you can never
teach your children as much about life
as you. They need to know because they
have to learn it on their own. They have
to make their own mistakes.
>> Yep. It's it's it's it's something
coming from the dad. You may have you
may have more success uh for your
children reading that book if you wrote
it under a pseudonym and told them it
was from somebody else. Right.
[laughter]
Well, I will tell you, Johan, when I was
18 or whatever, I was the smartest
18year-old in the world and everything I
thought was wrong. I was totally wrong
about everything, about myself, about
the world, about life.
I learned that the hard way, the easy
way, the best way by experience and
life.
>> Yep. We certainly do have to make our
own mistakes and live life our own way.
Um it's uh it's not something that we
can be told but also
if we want to there's certain people who
can learn by reading a book or uh seeing
other people uh fail. But uh for me
myself, I'm a I'm a doer and I learn by
experience. I don't know how it is for
you.
>> Well, I I'm not the first one to know
that experience is the best teacher. I
mean, you know, whether you're a fool or
a genius, experience is the best teacher
that anybody can have. And that's how
you learn
about people, about life, about
everything. success, failure, it all was
there.
>> Do you still feel and I know that after
you traveled the world uh you decided to
move to Asia, move to Singapore. Um do
you feel
that the eastern
countries in the world they have a
different mindset when it comes to hard
work and discipline? Uh I think that was
something that we talked about and you
talked about back in uh in 2009.
Do you feel it's the same today? Do you
feel uh the society is just as creative
as American society? Um yeah, comment on
those things.
>> Well, Johan, history is pretty clear. If
you're in country X in 1500 or country Y
in 1900, they're different countries,
but the people learn.
Ambitious people and smart people learn.
They have to work hard. They have to do
the right thing if they're going to be
successful. Everybody learns that. It
doesn't matter where you are. It doesn't
matter how old you are, but everybody
eventually learns that. And that was the
that's what distinguishes
successful people from unsuccessful
people. I wish it were easy. I wish all
I had to do was read a book. I wish all
I had to do was go to school. Doesn't
work that way.
>> Yeah. I guess there's a certain point in
a person's life where they they realize
that
they're they're they are their own best
chance at being successful.
Yes, many people never quite get that,
but
the pretty successful people of course
figure that out. Doesn't matter whether
they're whatever it is, if they're an
entrepreneur or an academic, whatever
they are, they realize they have to do
it themselves and they get on with it. I
wish it were easy. I wish all I had to
do was read a book or take a course.
My experience is it doesn't work that
way.
having traveled to all those countries
and seeing and I don't know if you keep
up to date with things. You probably
have better things to do with your time.
Uh you may not but you and you may be
totally plugged in. Um how have the
demographics changed and if you were to
do that trip
um what would you think it would teach
you and where would you go?
>> Where would I go? Go around the world.
Doesn't matter where I would go, Johan.
You're going to learn something. Whether
you drive through Siberia or Africa or
Germany, you're going to learn
something. You know, it doesn't matter
what you do, where you are if you if you
do it.
Beauty of traveling on around the world
is you're close to the ground and so you
have to have lots of experiences and
that's going to teach you a lot. Maybe
you've never drank beer before, but if
you're in Germany, you're going to learn
to drink beer and you're going to meet a
lot of Germans and you're going to learn
something. But that doesn't it could
that could be China. I could say that
about Brazil. I could say that about
many places.
The experience of meeting people, being
with people, learning how they think,
and you're going to realize, oh my gosh,
that's very different.
For them, it's not different. It's just
cuz you you came from a small town
nowhere. So, you never saw a Chinese
before. So, all of this is educational,
eyeopening, and but it'll certainly
teach you, taught me. Anyway,
>> there's a news story going around now.
Uh I'm based in Canada and you're from
Alabama and the news headline the other
day on one of the papers was that uh
Canada has realized that it's just as
just as poor or even worse off than
Alabama. I think that that comes from a
data point that showed that the GDP per
capita is on par with uh Alabama, the
entire country of Canada. What do you
think about that? What does that say
about us here?
>> Well,
[sighs and gasps]
I've been to Canada often. I've driven
across Canada a few times. I've always
been impressed.
I've always had fun in Canada. There
always new experiences, new people. I
don't know if it's the same GVP as
Alabama or Germany. Doesn't matter. But
Canada is an extremely interesting. I
mean, you're lucky in some ways to be
from Canada because it's going to teach
you a lot about the world. Going to
teach you a lot about North America.
going to teach you a lot about the
United States if you're from Canada
because you can see it through different
eyes. No, Canada has a great history,
great story, and I presume a great
future.
Nice. That's a that's a that's a
wonderful perspective. I I I really like
that a lot. Um,
what do you see as some of the
opportunities
today for young people to capitalize on
in general?
>> The main opportunity for everybody is
what they love. I mean, I can sit here
and tell you, "Oh my gosh, you should be
a baseball player." But if you don't
like baseball, don't don't don't listen
to me or anybody else. The most
important thing to learn is what you
love. And it's hard sometime to figure
out what you love the most. But young
people should figure out what they love
the most. And they should pursue that.
And it doesn't matter what it is. If you
want to be a farmer, be a farmer. I
mean, if that's what you love, you're
going to be successful and excited and
have a good life. If I tell you to be a
lawyer and you really want to be a
farmer, please be a farmer cuz that will
be exact. And even if you're not rich
and famous, doesn't matter because
you'll be happy. Doesn't matter if
you're rich or famous, you'll be happy.
And that's the most important.
>> I believe I heard a world leader few
weeks ago say something similar.
More people need to find their vocation.
Does that resonate with the same
message? Like a vocation is something
that you love. I believe um I looked it
up and it it sounds like the same thing.
Well, I don't know who you heard, but
I'm telling you the most important thing
that anybody can do is to figure out
what they love and pursue it. It does
not matter what it is. If your parents
say, "Oh my god, I don't want you to be
a gardener, but you love gardening."
Please be a gardener. Be a gardener.
You'll be the most successful gardener
in town and happy even if you're not
successful.
The most important thing, young, and I
want to say it over and over, the most
important thing is to figure out what
you really love. And please pursue that.
Don't listen to me or other people.
Pursue what you really love.
Some people grow up a little confused.
Some people grow up a little misguided.
How does one what are some strategies to
figure out what you love from
from early on? Um, I think you know what
I mean here, but also
[clears throat]
what do you feel about maybe the
experience of going to school would help
with that.
>> Well, I wish I could tell you how to
figure out what you love. I found it by
accident. You know, I thought I was
going to go to law school and be a
lawyer. Thank goodness I stumbled onto
Wall Street, but it was purely an
accident. I got a summer job there
because I happened to like the guy and
fell in love with Wall Street because it
was a place they would pay me to know
what was going on in the world. But I,
like many young people, didn't know
enough about myself or the world to know
what to do. So I I don't know how to
tell people to figure it out or to learn
it, but the most important thing to
anybody is to figure out what you love
the most. And please pursue it. Pursue
it. Pursue it. And if you want to be a
gardener, don't listen to people tell
you not to be a gardener. For goodness
sakes, be a gardener. You're going to be
successful and you're going to be happy.
>> Yeah.
>> And which
Yeah. There you go. What's the um So,
speaking about doing things you love, uh
I observe my daughter sometimes and and
what she spends her time on and I tell
her to do more of it because she's
clearly,
I guess, infatuated with the the process
of building up a large house in Roblox,
a large property, and then demolishing
it and starting it up again and
demolishing it and starting it up again.
So, I'm like I think to myself, I'm
like, "You must love architecture and
designing and uh decorating, and it's
it's totally right down her alley."
>> Well, you and I I don't know your
daughter, but I'm delighted to hear you
are encouraging her to do what she loves
because I do know that's extremely
important.
Many people tell their children, "Oh,
no, no, you should be a lawyer." blah
blah blah. No, if you want to be a
gardener, be a gardener. That's going to
be the best for you and you're going to
be a very successful gardener. So, don't
listen to me. Don't listen to others.
And it's not easy. And many people never
find out or they're afraid to do what
they really love. But that's the best
advice I can give any person old or
young.
>> Sounds good. And what's the what do you
love these days, Jim? Like what's the I
I I could only imagine that uh being a
dad myself and you're a dad that uh we
obviously are in love with just raising
our kids and and making sure that uh
you're there for them when they need it
and guiding them. Uh but like how was
how were how was the process of being a
dad?
>> Well, I would tell you all my life I was
against having children. I felt sorry
for my friends who had children. I had
one I had my first child when I was 60 6
>> and I my second child when I was 65 and
I would say to Johan it's been
astonishing exciting wonderful for me.
You know I want to say it's one of the
best things I ever did. Now, if I'd had
a child when I was 23, it would have
been a mistake for the child and for me
and for the mother and for everybody.
But there came a time I now realized
when I was ready, I had done many
things. So, for me, the most exciting
thing I have done now is to be a father.
And I have two of them. They're great.
>> Wonderful. And uh I guess no better time
to do it. And I'm and and and have that
experience as well. Like you said, some
people have the kids too early and uh
they they don't uh appreciate the the
process and you were probably in a
position where you appreciated the
process a lot more.
>> Well, I don't know if I got it right or
not, but I'm certainly very very pleased
and happy and excited with what I did. I
think I did it at a very good time for
me. So, we'll see. Can ask me 40 years.
>> Yeah. And uh if you if you had to write
that book again, A gift to my children,
would you add any chapters?
>> No. I just The one thing I would
emphasize over and over for everybody is
please figure out a way to find out what
you love the most.
And many people never find it or even if
they find it, they're afraid to do it.
But the most important thing is to
figure out what you love and do it.
Pursue it. Do it. Pursue it. Pursue it.
Pursue it.
[sighs and gasps] It's the most
important advice I can give anybody.
>> Wonderful advice. And uh yeah, you've
you've said it uh quite a number of
times and I and I think that comes from
uh more happy people. It would result in
more happy people, a better world, and
uh just a place that uh is
fun to be around when you have people
that love what they're doing. And I
think that's what what you're getting
at. What excites you these days, Jim?
>> What is what these days?
>> What excites you these days?
my kids more than anything else. But no,
I still am very keen on the world. I
love going new places. I love going old
places. I mean, you know, I'm going to
England again next month. I've been to
England many times, but it's still
exciting and interesting.
Seeing the world is for me the best way
to live. Now, maybe that's cuz I'm from
a small town where my phone number was
five. Maybe that's it, you know. But
what for whatever reason, seeing the
world for me is still the best thrill.
Even if I'd been there before, seeing it
again, whatever [clears throat] it is,
is a thrill.
>> That's amazing, Jim. And uh are you
having any public events uh soon uh that
you want to let us know about? Are you
working on anything publicly?
>> Well, I usually am. I cannot remember
right now. I mean, people still
periodically invite me to speak and I
love doing it. So, I'm sure that thing
is coming up. I'm sure my assistant will
put them on the website. But the answer,
the main answer to your question is I
don't know, Johan. I don't know. But
there's always something to do and I
like doing it.
I like new people and new countries, new
experiences.
>> I it's it's been a great pleasure to
have you on the show today as especially
as my first guest. My whole concept
behind this show is to bring
the conversation between humans
uh back to the forefront. A lot of
people are talking about tech. A lot of
people are talking about AI and I think
like in this world we're just trying to
make sense of the world today and uh I'm
glad we could do it from this point here
and uh I appreciate you coming on.
>> Well, Johan, I hope you're going to help
all of us learn what's happening and
what's going on in the world. We all
need to know about the world. We all
need to know about reality. That's the
most important thing. We can read the
newspaper or watch the TV or something,
but the most important thing is to know
what's really happening and what it
means.
Not just what's happening, but what it
means. And that's the hard part. I hope
you can help educate all of us.
And before we go, do you have any
insights on into where you would keep an
eye out for signals so that maybe some
of my listeners can say, "Hey, you know,
uh, these are some signals."
>> Well, let's listen to Johan's show,
[laughter] you know, see what he's
coming up with.
The best thing is to have new
experiences, meet new people, different
places, whatever it is.
because there's always something
happening in the world. There's always
something we don't know about. And for
me, the best thing is to try to find
those things and figure out what they
are. And I never know what they are.
That's why it's always so interesting
when I can find something new.
>> Awesome. Well, I appreciate your time
today, sir, and I thank you for uh your
candid thoughts on things that if we
really listen to, uh there's a lot of
wisdom in there, and I appreciate you
sharing that with my my audience and uh
kicking off the new show. So, thanks,
Jim. Uh would you mind staying on just
for a minute after and then we could uh
I could let you go.
>> Well, thank you. Thank you. It was my
pleasure. Good luck to you and happy new
year to everybody.